An open thread on illegal immigration
(Kept on top; new posts below)
(Live blogging here of the president’s speech, which begins at 7 p.m. CT)
(Reaction from others below)[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Live blogging:[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
As a measure of the importance of this topic, this is reportedly the president’s first speech from the White House not about the war on terrorism or the war in Iraq. [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
The president’s objectives:[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
• Secure the borders. Open to trade and lawful immigration. He talks about technology, manpower and a temporary deployment of the National Guard, but no wall.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
• No automatic path to citizenship. That, the president says, is amnesty. Semi-automatic path, which he calls for, is evidently not. Casts mass deportation as only alternative and says it’s not an option. Says nothing about legalization without citizenship.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
A short, undeveloped speech in which the president says little that will assuage those worried about future waves of illegals. A tamper-proof ID card for foreign nationals? Great. But what do you do with a prospective employee who says he’s a U.S. citizen and has a (bogus) Social Security card or birth certificate to back up his claim?[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
We must wait now to see what comes out of conference committee. And, as always, the devil will be in the details.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
As for the president’s assertion that, “Once here, illegal immigrants live in the shadows of our society,” does he mean like this?[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Some of the particulars from the president’s speech:[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
• Another 6,000 Border Patrol agents between now and 2008, for a total of 18,000.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
• For now, 6,000 National Guardsmen, “deployed in shifts,” to “assist the Border Patrol by operating surveillance systems, analyzing intelligence, installing fences and vehicle barriers, building patrol roads, and providing training.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
• The “[construction of] high-tech fences in urban corridors” and “new patrol roads and barriers in rural areas … motion sensors, infrared cameras, and unmanned aerial vehicles to detect and respond to illegal crossings.” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
More here.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
There’s nothing wrong with any of this. In fact, it’s all good, assuming it gets done. But does it beat a wall? And will it work?[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Elsewhere …[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Michelle Malkin: “Bush has lost touch with reality, arguing that guest worker/amnesty will reduce the incentive to cross the border.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Glenn Reynolds: “My prediction: Over the next few weeks, lots of back-and-forth with Congress (this is an opening bid), ending with no guest worker program and with a slightly-less-open amnesty path to citizenship. Sampling the punditry on TV, the reception isn’t too bad, considering.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
American Princess: “Bush isn’t a sellout. He’s a politician. Politicians make compromises, and they make policy, often with more than the hysterical extremists in mind. In fact, if the hysterical extremists are calling for it, its probably not in the interest of the majority of apathetic voters. Bush knows this, Reagan knew this, yet somehow it escaped John Hawkins.” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
John Hawkins: “This was not an impressive speech. He said he’d send the National Guard to the border for a year, where they wouldn’t be actually apprehending any illegals, but everything else is the same old, same old. So, in my view, this isn’t even an olive branch to people who are serious about defending this border and dealing with illegal immigration. Overall grade for the speech: F”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Latino Issues: “5 great objectives—the ball is in the Senate’s court now.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
A Large Regular: “This was an excellent speech. A home run!” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Un-Reserved: “The president has blown it. He just couldn’t bring himself to endorse a real, long fence.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Blue State Conservatives: “President Bush and Congress fail to realize that it is a buyer’s market and we are not interested in what they are selling.” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Confederate Yankee: “Give me a few minutes to digest this, and I’ll be back, but my initial reaction is that Bush just split the Republican Party.” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
The Galvin Opinion: “[Bush’s] poll ratings will go further down after tonight because of more demoralized conservatives.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Patrick Semmens: “While not a very compelling speech, Bush outlined a moderate compromise. The elements on the right that want to deport every illegal immigrant won’t be pursuaded by the speech, but they were never the audience that Bush wanted to convince.” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Blogs for Bush: “At the end of the day, the President rejects both amnesty and ‘know-nothingism’ - his plan is the right plan in all respects, and we’ll now see whether or not the rest of our political class has the courage, generosity and simple human decency the President has shown tonight.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Lone Wacko: “Is he insane? This is the same speech he’s delivered countless times. Does he expect a different result? Is he intentionally trying to drive his popularity down to 20%?”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Carol Liebau: “President Bush is obviously beginning to understand the depth and passion of Americans’ concerns about illegal immigration. His speech tonight was cast almost completely in the context of border security.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Power Line: “President Bush doesn’t have many chances left to salvage his second term. After tonight, he might not have any.”[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Hugh Hewitt (whose site is crashing under the weight of the traffic): “My interview with Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security Julie Myers staggered me, undoing in a handful of minutes my confidence in the president’s commitment to border security first. Either the president’s team had not communicated effectively with sub-cabinet appointees about the fence, or the president doesn’t really believe in the fence, because Assistant Secretary Myers is clearly not a proponent of the fence. Memo to Tony Snow: The blogosphere/talk radio callers/e-mailers are turning against this speech in a decisive fashion. They simply do not believe the Administration is really committed to border enforcement, and the spokespeople sent out to back up the president’s message aren’t doing that job. Period. It is all about the fence. The real fence.” [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
According to an e-mail just sent by the Republican National Committee, here’s part of what the president will say tonight:[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
We are a Nation of laws, and we must enforce our laws. We are also a Nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways. These are not contradictory goals – America can be a lawful society and a welcoming society at the same time. We will fix the problems created by illegal immigration, and we will deliver a system that is secure, orderly, and fair.
Since I became President, we have increased funding for border security by 66 percent, and expanded the Border Patrol from about 9,000 to 12,000 agents… . we have apprehended and sent home about six million people entering America illegally.
Despite this progress, we do not yet have full control of the border, and I am determined to change that. Tonight I am calling on Congress to provide funding for dramatic improvements in manpower and technology at the border.
The reality is that there are many people on the other side of our border who will do anything to come to America to work and build a better life. They walk across miles of desert in the summer heat, or hide in the back of 18-wheelers to reach our country. This creates enormous pressure on our border that walls and patrols alone will not stop. To secure the border effectively we must reduce the numbers of people trying to sneak across.
… we need to hold employers to account for the workers they hire. It is against the law to hire someone who is in this country illegally. Yet businesses often cannot verify the legal status of their employees, because of the widespread problem of document fraud. Therefore, comprehensive immigration reform must include a better system for verifying documents and work eligibility …
A tamper-proof card would help us enforce the law – and leave employers with no excuse for violating it. And by making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in our country, we would discourage people from crossing the border illegally in the first place.
… we must face the reality that millions of illegal immigrants are already here. They should not be given an automatic path to citizenship. This is amnesty, and I oppose it. Amnesty would be unfair to those who are here lawfully – and it would invite further waves of illegal immigration.
… we must honor the great American tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one Nation out of many peoples. The success of our country depends upon helping newcomers assimilate into our society, and embrace our common identity as Americans. Americans are bound together by our shared ideals, an appreciation of our history, respect for the flag we fly, and an ability to speak and write the English language.
Because I’d really like to hear your thoughts about the president’s speech tonight, and about illegal immigration generally, I’ve decided to temporarily disable comment registration. I’ve also set all comments to publish immediately. Normally, only readers with a Type Key identity can comment here, and only regular readers get their comments published immediately. These aren’t censorship tactics; they’re anti-spam tactics. But given the importance of this topic, I’ll abide the spam for a day. (I’ve even suspended the requirement that commenters provide a valid e-mail address. So you’re free, if you like, to comment in anonymity.)[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Consider this an an open thread — I’ll keep it at top — where you can post your reactions to the president’s remarks and your thoughts on dealing with illegal immigration. Write whatever you like about the topic. But do it, please, while observing a measure of decorum, e.g. no name calling or personal invective. [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t think any other issue — save perhaps for out-of-control federal spending — implicates the future cohesion of the Republican coalition as much as this issue. It’s worth talking about.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Go when ready.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
I do hope he says this as you posted below… because if he doesn’t I might just say something to cause a few Black Hawk helicopter’s to come pick my butt up and send me to Gitmo.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Bush is sending the wrong government agency to the border. I would prefer the Army Corps of Engineers down there. I’ve heard they’re pretty good at digging ditches…[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Six thousand National Guardsmen to the border. While I disagree with the concept of using troops; if you are going to use the military you need at-least two to three divisions (20-25,000 troops each) of regulars for atleast 6-years to do the job. The Guard are supposed to be part-time troops and their continued use strains the economy and their families; whereas regular troops have to be on-duty somewhere anyway. And to avoid unfortunate shootings like Enriques Valenzuela (the teenaged goatherd “accidentaly” shoot by Guardsmen) the troops need to be re-trained for border conditions and there long-enough to know their sector. And they need to be there long-enough to establish their military infastructure and to block-off and disrupt the entire culture of trans-border people and drug smuggling.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
What I didn’t hear was any strong message to the business community that it will be held to account for their use of undocumented or irregularily-documented workers….now, or in the future. As long as those jobs are there and available to the undocumented, people will cross the borders. While Bush called for 6,000 border gaurds, he did not call for greater employment enforcement. I reject the idea of knocks in the middle of the night by enforcement officers to immigrants’ homes; but more than a few medium to large corporations’ officers could stand a few days or weeks of inquisition over their hiring of illegals…and where the actual taxes-owed went. Just as the bootleggers were busted for taxes rather than booze; get the employers for tax-fraud and false reporting even if you can’t for “irregular hiring”-practices. Businesses’ with more than 10 or 15 employees could be audited by a number of governmental agencies to determine if they have been obeying the employment laws that have been on the books for over 15-years.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
The Harriet Meiers Nomination speech of the immegration issue. Hopefully the House will prevail. Bah! Humbug![pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Kay Bailey Hutchinson is up this year. If an amnesty or guestworker passes, her opponent will get my vote and my money. The red state Senators need to communicate to their leadership that they are being held to account on this issue.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
All El Jefe needs to do is pass some “common sense” gun control legislation and nominate Alberto Gonzales to the next SCOTUS seat and the destruction of a once proud party will be complete.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
I cover this issue on my blog and unfortunately there was nothing new tonight. The “vapor fence” as I’ve heard it called was already tried on the Canadian border. It was a rousing failure, embarrassing really.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
The president has actively not enforced the law for over five years now, so if he gets the law he wants he will BEGIN enforcing the law, as Kramer would say…Now![pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Kinda hard to believe, wouldn’t you say?[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Tonight’s speech should have embarrassed the president, but I doubt it did. He has several clearly enumerated goals, and I do mean things he has clearly communicated with his mouth to the world at large.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
they are, joining Mexico, Canada and the US in a joint defense dealie that is truly a nightmare and includes a social security normalization plan that should scare the bejeezus out of anyone sane.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Amnesty for all illegals, and a whole lot more illegals just to make sure the wages stay nice and low. Of course let’s not forget H1-B type visas so we can turn top tier jobs into jobs Americans won’t take do as well.[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
And of course, being the catalyst for a fundamental demographic shift in this country that we are not allowed to even debate under the auspices of the UN Racist code. If I don’t scream out every day that my dearest wish is to import South American style socialism and corruption I am by default a racist, it sucks but what are you gonna do, right?[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
While you are reading this, the Iranian reactor produces enriched bomb-grade uranium. Terrorists can deliver that bomb to your city, and it can kill you and your children. Yet the government does nothing. [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Do we demand violence? Not in any common sense. Similarly, police use force to arrest criminals in order to stop violence. [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
But Iran is not a criminal? Wrong. Iran has proven malicious intent. Iran, under the current regime, conducted many terrorist bombings in the West, and sponsors deadly terrorists. Iranian leaders repeatedly called for fight against the United States and annihilation of Israel. [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Perhaps Iran needs nuclear weapons for self-defense? No. Iran already bullies the Middle East with its huge conventional army. No country threatens Iran. [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
Since the eighth-century jihad and the Ottoman army at the gates of Vienna, the West has never been exposed to such threat. Iran’s several nuclear bombs can inflict more damage on America than the World War II. Never before the Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West and dream of attacking it had military might of apocalyptic dimensions. Are you crazy to doubt they will use the bomb? [pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
We call on the United States: Do not hesitate. Protect your people. Protect your allies. Destroy the Iranian reactor![pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2
To sign the petition, visit http://terrorismisrael.com/nuclear_iran.htm[pP]>Crack fr DTM Race Drivers 2